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Engine Identity (or should that be "Identity Fraud?")

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Engine Identity (or should that be "Identity Fraud?") Empty Engine Identity (or should that be "Identity Fraud?")

Post  Clifford on Sat May 16, 2009 9:03 am

Having now established that my Scamp has the wrong rocker cover, it set me wondering just which engine it has.

The engine number tag is missing but the V5, for what it's worth, gives it as 9FDSAH.5075 and says its 998cc.

I've looked this up on a few websites and one shows it as being a 1071cc Cooper S, whilst two others say it's a 998cc. Mk.II Morris Cooper, all say it should have "Closed Circuit Breathing". Now, the V5 gives the make as Austin and, as it has front drums, I know that at least these weren't Cooper donated.

Are there any tell-tale signs that would give an indication as to what it really is?

As always, any comments much appreciated.

Engine Identity (or should that be "Identity Fraud?") IMGP2352-1

Engine Identity (or should that be "Identity Fraud?") IMGP2355-1

Engine Identity (or should that be "Identity Fraud?") IMGP2354-1
Clifford
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Engine Identity (or should that be "Identity Fraud?") Empty Are there any tell-tale signs that would give an indication as to what it really is?

Post  minibuger on Sat May 16, 2009 10:06 am

Remove the rocker cover if it is a cooper head ,it will have 2 springs per valve and there is also a number at the back of them on the casting and you could also try look at the gear box cast number see if it a cooper one .If it is a cooper head it may have been put on a standard block ,the only real way to find out is to strip it and check the part numbers ie crank,conrods,cam .
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Post  Ferretboy221 on Sat May 16, 2009 11:07 am

As the previous post says there should be a casting number on the head.

12g295 or 12g206 are 998cc/997cc cooper heads.

12g202 is an 1100cc head.

CAM4810 is a standard head used from 87 onwards and is lead free.

The earlier heads vary but most start with 2A or 12A

hope that helps.
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Post  wezgit daan saaf on Sat May 16, 2009 10:14 pm

Just found a brilliant website with most of the British Leyland engine numbers,yours is pre 1970 and is a cooper 998 engine with 9.1 compression(well it was when it was new).The website is www.mgcars.org.uk/mgccz/technic/codeseng.pdf hope this of some help.
At least that is what it should be according to your logbook.You can get a new engine plate made, I have seen them at most of the Mini shows.
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Engine Identity (or should that be "Identity Fraud?") Empty Just found a brilliant website with most of the British Leyland engine numbers

Post  m3prq on Sun May 17, 2009 3:31 pm

wezgit daan saaf wrote:Just found a brilliant website with most of the British Leyland engine numbers.

That sure is a Brilliant site.
I am still confused hehe mine is 99hb81p it says 99hb82p is automatic mine is manual
someone went to a lot of trouble.


Last edited by m3prq on Sun May 17, 2009 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : to add my engine number)

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Engine Identity (or should that be "Identity Fraud?") Empty It''s a Cooper Head Alright

Post  Clifford on Wed May 20, 2009 11:09 am

Thanks for all this advice, the casting number is 12A185 and it has the double springs so it's certainly a Cooper head. Not 100% convinced about the rest of the engine though, especially considering it doesn't have closed circuit breathing which, according to the V5's engine number, it should have. So, quite possibly a cooper head on a standard block, or perhaps even an older Cooper block. I'm not about to strip it down further just out of curiosity but obviously something to bear in mind for the future.

Engine Identity (or should that be "Identity Fraud?") IMGP2369 Engine Identity (or should that be "Identity Fraud?") IMGP2365

Whereabouts might I find the gearbox casting number? In the hope of shedding a little more light on things.
Clifford
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Engine Identity (or should that be "Identity Fraud?") Empty Whereabouts might I find the gearbox casting number?

Post  minibuger on Wed May 20, 2009 11:53 am

Hi the gearbox number is behind the oil filter if i remember right it should have 22g190 or 22g 333 ? in it if its a cooper box .If its not been run for a bit i would change the oil seal in the timeing chain cover and see if its got a twin row chain on it like the coopers did .
Idea
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Post  wezgit daan saaf on Wed May 20, 2009 10:30 pm

On alot of the earlier A series engines they used to cast the cc in the side of the block,might be worth looking around the back of the engine underneath the side covers.
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Engine Identity (or should that be "Identity Fraud?") Empty Gearbox Casting Number

Post  Clifford on Sun May 31, 2009 11:11 pm

OK, back on the case now after a most unwelcome break.

The number cast on the gearbox, by the oil filter, is 22A1288.

Does this mean anything to anyone?
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Post  TRR Motorsport on Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:13 pm

In lieu of a sensible answer my guess is that your engine was made on the 22nd April 1288. Laughing
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Post  Clifford on Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:41 pm

Hmmmmm ......... 12th April eh? There was me thinking it might have been a little earlier than that, possibly by as much as eleven days. scratchchin
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Engine Identity (or should that be "Identity Fraud?") Empty 22a1288

Post  minibuger on Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:38 am

Could the number be 22a1228 (none s, type b box ,alloy remote type) ?????????????????
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Post  Clifford on Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:53 am

minibuger wrote: (none s, type b box ,alloy remote type) ??????

Not quite sure what this would mean, especially the 'none s' bit.

Don't seem to be getting very far with this quest. I've now read, in the Haynes Manual, that all 998cc engines had double valve springs! So perhaps it's not a Cooper head after all, although I've also found out that it's got a Cooper S dizzy which you can no longer get points for!

Aaaaarrrrgghhhh ! There was me loving my Scamp because it's so simple and basic!
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Engine Identity (or should that be "Identity Fraud?") Empty Not quite sure what this would mean, especially the 'none s' bit.

Post  minibuger on Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:03 am

Its not a cooper box ,but it has the alloy type gear remote like the cooper's .type A box being the wond type ,and the later rod type box is a C type from 73 on.Also if the remote bolts to the box with two bolts for the bottom in to the remote its a Austin 1100/1300 box with a longer remote as all the mini remotes bolted from the side You should be able to get a set of pionts for Mini Spares?


Last edited by minibuger on Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:42 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post  Clifford on Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:27 am

Thanks for explaining that, it all make sense now and certainly ties in with my box.

As for the points, it was Mini Spares who told me they weren't available any more and suggested I try ebay. There I found several sellers had Cooper S points for about £15 a set whereas normal points go for £2.50. I'm going to try some adaptations, although as far as I can tell, the main difference with the Cooper S points seems to be the spring strength.
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Post  minibuger on Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:23 am

I will ask my local parts shop for you and get back to you as thay carry lots of old parts .
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Post  TRR Motorsport on Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:47 pm

Isn't your dizzy just a Lucas D25? surely there the points are interchangeable with something else?

It might be worth trying Moss, speedy spares or Rimmer Bros as an alternative.
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Post  Clifford on Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:32 pm

Dizzy looks like a standard D25 but it's serial number is 40819, as fitted to the 970, 1071 & 1275cc Cooper S, and it has no vacuum advance. I've bought a standard set of points so will see if they fit at the weekend.
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Post  TRR Motorsport on Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:13 pm

They fitted D25s to everything from Land Rovers to MGBs so you should be able to get a set of points for it. I even think I have a set in my old MGB spare box if you're desparate. Very Happy
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Post  Clifford on Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:51 pm

Hi all, Well I've established that standard points fit OK but the spring in the old set is definitely stronger than the new set, although I can't see it making much difference to me, I assume it might have some advantage at high revs though. My concerns were raised when I looked up the dizzy number in Haynes and found it was from a Cooper S. Mini Spares list a set of points specifically for the Cooper S so that's what I asked for. When told they were no longer available I assumed the worst and thought a dizzy change was the only option. Panic over.

In my endeavour to give my new Scamp a thorough service, I have however discovered a bit missing from the oil filter assembly. There should be a plate that applies the spring pressure to the element to keep it sealed up against the mounting bracket. This plate was missing so the oil could bypass the element. In effect, no oil filter. Plenty of sludge in the bowl though, only hope it hasn't caused too much excess wear or premature damage. I found a huge washer which seemed to fit perfectly so will probably become a fixture.

Next problem (and next post) - Timing.
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