Neil's Incident

I Think i'm not going to be making the Turkey Run...

Thanks to a Toyota Yaris pulling out of a side road without looking, on the way to work this morning...i've got a slightly missaligned front end !!!

Looks like a totally foobar subframe & twisted front end, totally bent front grille, smashed lights, knackered radiator, even more missaligned front suspension.....etc...

BOLLOCKS

Christ Neil - you OK though?

I can only imagine that 1 bent Scamp = one less Yaris on the roads

Got some very sore ribs, (non broken), otherwise...mustn't grumble. 40 mph and no airbag!!!
Yes chaz the yaris is toast, "A" post all twisted & front susp collapsed. 51 plate yaris, & his airbag didn't go off...weird





The yaris's insurance co have already phoned me to say they accept liability & what can they do to help me...going to deal with Footman James tho'.

Anyone know if you can still buy the car back from the insurers, or is it all dependant on the cat of the right-off.

Haven't had an insurance claim in 20 years, & probably going to end up with a bloody Aygo for 2 days, till they tell me its written off. Then the valuation fun will start.......

Even though i'm not in the best of moods at the moment..........

Merry Christmas...

As far as I am aware as long as the insurance guy doesn't class it as the highest level of right off then yes you can buy back.

I'd drop Andrew a line for a price on a new chassis and have that in ready for them so you can prove it can be re-shelled. Or see if he is able to offer some sort price for a new front chassis. We used to do that when I was at Sylva for crash repairs.

Might be worth using these as a bit of a proof of value:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160642257625&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C259635
http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/rare-mini-scamp-1963/87911331

Glad to know you are in one peice though mate

So glad to hear that you are ok - even if the scamp isn't. Hope you are able to convince Footman James that it is worth rebodying. Fingers crossed!

Oh no Neil - what can we say

So glad that you are ok though. Fingers crossed that your scamp is back on the road soon.

Can't you just say you'll repair it yourself, seeing as it's a kit car? I know it's a while back, but I'm sure that's what Dea did
Mind you, even then I suppose they'll still go off how much you had it insured for, along with the average price of a Scamp, and then work it out from there...

The Yaris probably wasn't going fast enough for its airbag to go off? Although, they are known for it.... there was a recall following loads of owners contacting the BBC's Watchdog programme.... but some still didn't work then!


Glad you seem to have escaped injury yourself.
Elaine & Reg.


EDIT: Copied & Pasted;


Insurance Loss Categories - Quick reference

* Category A - Must be crushed. All of it.

* Category B - Vehicle may not be returned to road but parts may be sold.

* Category C - Repairable. Significant damage. Cost of the repair is more than book value of vehicle at dealer rates.

* Category D - Repairable. Probably non-structural damage. May have been economic to repair, but insurer doesn't want to.

* Category X - Repairable. Minor Damage



Insurance Loss Categories - In detail

Category A
The vehicle may not be resold it must be crushed. Severely damaged, total burnout or flood damage with no serviceable parts, or already a stripped out shell. DVLA will require a Notification of Destruction.

Category B
The vehicle may not be resold. It will have been damaged beyond economical repair, usually with major structural damage. The DVLA will require Notification of Destruction but parts can be removed and sold on.

Category C
Repairable salvage. Usually applies to vehicles with significant damage and where the cost of repairs exceeds the book value. It can be sold for repair but must have VIC(Vehicle Identity Check) inspection before returning to the road. V5 documents are returned to DVLA and recorded as category C vehicles. You can re-apply for registration on the original identity once the VIC inspection has been done. VIC inspection and re-registration removes the Category C classification, but evidence it was at one time Category C remains on the vehicle's record at the DVLA and so will appear on a vehicle data check.

What is a Vehicle Identity Check and how does it work?(taken from the VOSA's site) The Vehicle Identity Check (VIC) has been introduced to help reduce car crime. It is intended to deter criminals from disguising stolen cars with the identity of written off ones. When an insurance company ‘writes off’ a car, (Category A, B or C) they notify DVLA and a VIC marker is placed on the DVLA record. DVLA will not issue a Registration Certificate (V5C) or a Vehicle Licence Reminder (V11) to a car with a VIC marker against it. In order to remove the VIC marker the car needs to be inspected by VOSA to confirm its identity. When the car passes the VIC, the marker is removed. The VIC will be carried out by VOSA. It will involve comparing the car against information held by DVLA, such as the vehicle identification number, make, model, colour and engine number. The VIC will also compare the record of previous accident damage with evidence of damage repair as well as checking other components to confirm the age and identity of the car.

Will the VIC confirm that the vehicle is roadworthy? No. The VIC is designed to confirm the identity of the car and does not assess the quality of the repair. You should seek independent expert opinion as to whether the car is roadworthy. If whilst carrying out the check the inspector notices a serious defect which would make the car dangerous to drive, then they will issue a notice which prohibits the car being used. Once it has been made roadworthy the prohibition can be removed.

Note: I understand motorbikes falling into this category do not have to undergo a VIC inspection so will warrant close investigation and clarification of identity.

Category D Repairable salvage. Minimal damage, probably not structural, but insurer does not want to repair, even though it might be economic to do so. Often stolen and recovered after claim has been paid. Or it maybe a vehicle where parts are difficult to obtain so a quick repair is unlikely. Does not need VIC inspection to return to road. Notification will appear in your vehicle history check

Category X has been the subject of a claim but minor or very lightly damaged and required minimal repair work. It would not be recorded with the DVLA so would not appear in any Vehicle Data Check

not recorded - Not an official category, it simply means that there has not been an insurance claim, possibly only had third party insurance and damaged the vehicle themselves or don't know who caused the damaged so can not make a claim or may not even been insured, either way the DVLA will not know in these cases so will not be recorded and will not show on any Vehicle History Check.

Once upon a time I forgot about a bend until it was too late and wiped out my front panel and half the front suspension. Total cost of the repair was £20 (1984 prices) for a complete front subframe from a scrappy.

However, I also bought a welder, an angle grinder and some steel tube, and learned to weld (RTT's truss girder front end dates from this time). I don't include that in the repair cost though - that was training expenses! And anything else that needed fixing wasn't repair but modification as I took the opportunity to do a few other things while I was about it.

Neil, hope that your Scamp chassis isn't distorted and that you can repair the damage as easily as I did.

Hi Neil,
Definitely go through Footman James as they should know what they're doing when dealing with kit car accident claims. The other driver's insurance co admitting liability so quickly is good.

Where is the Scamp at the mo? If it's being stored at a garage/scrap yard/bodyshop get it back to yours asap. This will 1) stop things disappearing from it (I know plenty of people who have had bits go missing from cars in 'secure storage' after an accident), 2) if the insurance co aren't paying daily storage fees it'll keep the cost of the claim down making it less likely to be a write off and give you time to negotiate, 3) this is one case where possession is definitely 9/10ths of the law and 4) you can make a start on repairing it just keep a record of the parts and time you spend on it.

A friend of ours was rear ended a couple of months back in his special edition Freelander and the ins co wanted to write the car off but he'd taken it to a friendly garage straight after the accident and then dug his heels in. By the time the ins co finally gave in and agreed to not write it off he'd pretty much repaired it and had already taken it to an off-roading event

Good luck!
Charlie

Thanks everyone for their comments & sympathies, feeling a bit more upbeat about in now...

Sorry for seeming to highjack the turkey run post...

Big thanks to Elaine for the insurance cat details.

I'll start a new post in the gallery, which will go through Walle's rebuild.

Thanks for your support.

Neil

No worries Neil, we found Charlie's post to be very informative too. Thankfully, we've never been in such a situation ourselves *touches wood* but you never know, and one day her bit of advice might just save one of our beloved cars from being written off.

Fingers crossed for your Scamp, and once again we're glad you got out relatively unscathed,
Elaine&Reg.

Right, time to roll up the sleeves....Its the insurance Merry-Go-Round...

The following ramblings might be of use to you if you have your Scamp insured with Footman James...

When you phone up FJ to make a claim, & press 1 as you'd expect, you get transfered to HelpHire Services,who act as an Accident management Facilitator for FJ.

I'm not about to slag this company off, their operatives are really nice & helpful, but their systems & procedures are not designed with Kit Cars in mind, let alone Scamps.

Step 1 - Phone up & go through the details of the claim, proving your policy no, the 3rd parties details etc...
Step 2 - Call back to establish that they've got all the details from the 3rd parties insurers.
Step 3 - Confirm current location of car to arrange transporting the Scamp to their assessment centre, where their engineers can establish the damage & work out prices / next step required.
Step 4 - Point out to the operative that the car involved is a 30yr old KIT CAR, with most of the body panels made by yours truly.
Step 5 - Offer to meet the engineer and go through the damage, as i'm probably the best person to tell the engineer what is actually damaged.
Step 6 - The penny drops as realisation dawns that a normal body shop won't be able to work on the Scamp.
Step 7 - Consult several times with the supervisor & then tell me that they wont be able to help me & transfer me to the Underwriter.
Step 8 - Patiently explain to the very nice lady from underwriters why i've been transfered to them.
Step 9 - Explain that the car is a 30yr old kit car, with most of the body panels having been made by me, and is pretty much unique.
Step 10 - Lady from the underwriters very quickly grasps the premiss that i'm going to have more knowledge than the inspection engineer, and my desire to have the Scamp repaired (not quite pleading, but close !).
Step 11 - After explaining how i've been rebuilding the Scamp over the last 3yrs & can repair it, she can see the "Write It Off & Buy It Back" between the lines.
Step 12 - Offer to help the engineer with his inspection as i know the car inside out. I've even offered to provide a full breakdown of the mechanical parts & prices required to repair the car (Mini Spares & Mini Sport prices as a comparison).
Step 13 - Mutual agreement that i need to be at the assessment, & provide any help i can.
Step 14 - Logistics. As the Scamp was recovered to a storage facility 2miles away, it should in theory go to the assessment centre in Wolverhampton where the assessment teams can assess the damage, (and the company that moves the car also pays the storage fees), and then will either go to the workshop or be written off. Whats actually happening is that the Scamp is being taken for a trip to Wolverhampton to the assessment centre, where its not going to be assessed, (the storage fees are taken care of this way, without me having to foot the bill & then claim it back ). The next leg of the journey will be from Wolverhampton to my house, where the Scamp will be dropped off by another recovery company (hopefully later this week).
Step 15 - Once the Scamp is back on my drive, (MUUHHAAHHAAA, oops sorry), the engineer will come out to me & go over the damage.

Sorry to be long winded, but it's a sort of therapy......stops me running up & down the road shouting "HAHA YOUR NEXT" at every Yaris that drives past !

To Come...The assessment & the valuations....

Ooooh knackered Scamp in Wolves....................spare parts

Seriously, listing it all down helps you to keep it straight in your mind and keeps a record,

Neil, this is not long winded it is extemely useful information and I feel that the important part of this thread really should be collated into one post and put as 'Sticky' in perhaps the Technical area - sorry Admin

This sort of information doesn't come about all that often - thank god - and when it does it seems to disappear quite quickly.

I'm glad to hear that it looks good for Wallie and that he should live again. Keep us informed mate.

Glad to hear that you are okay Niel.

Scamp 1
Toyota 0.

To miss-qoute the advert, "The car in the side is a Toyota"

Have plenty of spares if you need them, have sent you a PM.

Cheers Mr Bridger.

Oh, and don't forget the whiplash you encountered when the retard pulled out on you. The guy that i had a coming together with had £3K out of my insurance company despite my photographic evidence disproving his case. (it appears it would cost them more to fight it so they just pay out!.

TRR Motorsport wrote:Oh, and don't forget the whiplash you encountered when the retard pulled out on you. (it appears it would cost them more to fight it so they just pay out!.

Seconded - time to ring the ambulance chasers You'll be amazed how much it will effect your inability to work for the next two weeks or so Get them nailed mate

But everyone's always moaning about how high insurance premiums are, and a lot of that is down to folks making claims for injuries that they haven't actually sustained...
And let's not forget that having neck/back injuries on your medical record can also affect your future job prospects.


Fair enough if you are feeling any effects though,
Elaine.

I Know..."Where theres blame, theres a claim"... culture doesn't sit too well with me. Would rather just get on & get the scamp repaired

I figure the extra hassle & expense of a claim is going to drag the whole experience out even longer.
Only had a couple of days of sore chest & shoulder (seat belt), thats passed now & i'm concentrating on getting prices & rebuild plan together.

All the prices i'm pulling together are based on fitting new parts, & just the subframe, suspension & main mechanical parts (NOT including chassis & body panels) is up to about £850...(No James, I haven't quoted for KAD parts )

Walle is due to land on my drive on Monday, so i'm sorting out all the pictures of the rebuild, to show whats been done over the last 3 yrs. I'm also writing a spreadsheet of all the mechanical parts with alternate prices (Mini Sport vs. Mini Spares). I'm being honest & actually specifying which part from which company is already fitted.

Once the spreadsheet is done, i'm writing a complete breakdown of every body panel, with a description of how it was made, with material costs & estimated labour times. This will be included into the spreadsheet with estimates of consumables (ie. welding wire, filler, primer, sandpaper, paint etc...) to finish the job.

Then i've got a bit of research into Scamp Values (Cheers for the links Chaz), print them all out for the insurance asssessors.
I'm not going to be putting in claims for thousands, i'm putting in claims for reasonable repair rates to return the Scamp to it's previous condition. If the claims get too high, i'm going to end up with a long protracted claim with involvement from the other insurance company.

If i've got time when Walle lands on my drive, i'm planning to take photo's which i can then highlight showing what body panels need to be replaced, where they need to be cut out etc...

Plus, I've got to arrange to get my Golf scrapped off to clear space on the drive. Find a cheap runabout while i'm rebuilding Walle. Get christmas shopping done. All whilst working like a loon...

Cheers for the PM Mr B, (Walle is a Mk 2 Tho), i'm aiming to use new parts for 75% of the rebuild, with some parts i can only really get from scrap yard.

Roll on 23rd December...........2 weeks off work...

Have to say I'm a little disappointed to hear FJ sold your claim to HelpHire. This is common practice in the car insurance industry and is responsible for some of the recent increases in everyone's premiums. If you want to have a read of how this scam system works have a read of this thread http://boards.fool.co.uk/what-to-do-after-accident-12404190.aspx?sort=whole#12405643 *

Unfortunately this falls down when it comes to dealing with a none standard, rare and/or unusual car where the owner wants to buy the salvage and/or repair it themselves as Neil has been finding out.

Charlie

*BTW the poster Clithroekid on the linked thread is a solicitor in real life and has also written a very good explanation of why the Legal Protection Insurance sold with car insurance policies is a scam too: http://boards.fool.co.uk/legal-expenses-insurance-lei-particularly-in-11920809.aspx?sort=recommendations

Neil I have sent a message to eva asking her to visit walle and make him better, glad your ok and hope you have a good christmas from nettie & me

Glad you are alright Neil,I drive a Yaris too and fro to work,it's one of our courtesy/pick up cars,I dread to think what condition the Yaris is in!
I remember pulling out in front of a Renault 21 in my Mk2,just the mere scratch on the Scamp,front bumper,headlamp,wing,radiator,so on and so on,on the Renault! Best of luck with the insurance claim anyway,unlike my accident,at least it wasn't your fault.

Here's a quick photo of the "incident"...

[img][/img]

Done the mechanical parts breakdown, & the instructions on how the body panels were made (with material prices & labour time).

Just got a detailed plan of how to repair the chassis to go, as well as an approx time breakdown on assembling all the new parts into the repaired chassis.
Oh & also a montage of original rebuild photo's & photo's of the Scamp prior to the accident.

A very p'd off & tired Neil signing off for the day.

Sorry you have to repair a "loved one" but there is a "skamp" on E-bay, it might be easier to buy and rebuild instead of deconstructing and then rebuilding ! Just a thought........ good luck and hope to see the 2012 model.