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Towing Caravan with Mk1 Scamp

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Towing Caravan with Mk1 Scamp Empty Towing Caravan with Mk1 Scamp

Post  wezgit daan saaf on Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:23 pm

Well with the back end of the Scamp now reinforced and tow ball fitted and not able to get to Rick's do over the weekend,thought Sunday was a good day to trial the caravan on the back of the Scamp.There was a small kit car show at Detling just outside Maidstone (some 35 miles away) so I decided to try the caravan out with John Halliday in his Mk1 as support vehicle. Needn't have worried Scamp towed a dream, gearbox got a bit more use than normal but no major dramas.So we are just about ready for the long haul up to Stonleigh, Scamp and caravan permitting.
wezgit daan saaf
wezgit daan saaf

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Towing Caravan with Mk1 Scamp Empty Re: Towing Caravan with Mk1 Scamp

Post  Clifford on Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:44 pm

Hi. I'd be very interested in what caravan you are towing as I've just bought a Mk.1 and was hoping it might be able to tow my Eriba Puck.
Has anyone got any idea what the typical kerb weight of a Mk.1 might be? From what I can gather, even a standard Mini barely has enough weight to satisfy the normal 85% rule for towing my 'van. I know this isn't actually the law but is generally regarded as the safe limit. Not sure exactly what the law is regarding towing when the manufacturer doesn't specify a maximum towing weight. Can anyone enlighten me?

Clifford.
Clifford
Clifford

Number of posts : 19
Location : Maidstone, Kent
Job/hobbies : Retired Engineer - Classic Cars and Music
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Towing Caravan with Mk1 Scamp Empty Re: Towing Caravan with Mk1 Scamp

Post  m3prq on Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:24 am

Do You Have A Licence to Drive:
All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes. Described hereafter as MAM (Maximum Authorized Mass). This was previously known as gross trainweight. They also have entitlement for a minibus with a trailer over 750kgs.
If you passed your car driving test (category B) after the 1st January 1997, you are only entitled to tow a combined (car + trailer) weight of up to 4.25 tonnes MAM with a gross trailer weight of 750kgs.
However if the gross weight of your trailer is to exceed 750Kg (which is permitted) then your allowed MAM is reduced to 3.5 tonnes.
"If this is the combination you choose then the gross trailer weight must not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle or the manufactures recommended max trailer weight".

m3prq

Number of posts : 108
Location : Cheshire
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Registration date : 2008-07-13

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Post  Rum Tum Tugger on Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:52 am

I had both my Scamps weighed, the Mk2 came out at 700Kg and the Mk1 at 750 - it does have some extra beefing-up, not to mention the rear subframe - I suspect these figures are rounded to the nearest 50Kg. The nuts holding the Mk1's towball are welded direct to the (braced) chassis, they should withstand any trailer the engine can cope with.
Rum Tum Tugger
Rum Tum Tugger

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Post  Mk3rob on Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:50 pm

I had to put my Mk3 on a rolling road for my 1st MOT (hand brake) and it came out at 660kg.

Then i chopped a bit and added a bit............

As most know, i tow a chopped (Eng comp/boot) mini trailer and as previously said its mainly what engine size and how its setup that is the main concern.

Chris W has loads of slaves in his Garage so its not a problem Very Happy
Mk3rob
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Towing Caravan with Mk1 Scamp Empty The new rules

Post  tard on Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:53 pm

The new towing rules are why I bought a pajero. 1.9 tonnes. so I can tow an average car on a towing dolly.
The extra towing test is about £130. But we still don't get the 7.5ton truck part!!! If only I was a few years older.

tard

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Post  Ferretboy221 on Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:18 pm

be warned the trailer test is essentially an HGV test and usually takes close to an hour and a half.

have to back up the trailer using the mirrors in to a pre-prepared box usually a foot wider than the trailer on either side and also judge the distance of a barrier at the rear of the area. (ie dont reverse over the rear of the box)

then have to disconnect and re-connect the trailer in the correct manner...couple of questions then an emergency stop in the test centre grounds usually...then off you go driving for about an hour.

it is good to have and gives you a taste of what sort of test the HGV drivers do if you want to go on to that sort of thing afterwards.
Ferretboy221
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Towing Caravan with Mk1 Scamp Empty Re: Towing Caravan with Mk1 Scamp

Post  wezgit daan saaf on Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:00 pm

The caravan I have is a Freedom Microlite with a gross weight of 650kg,which does bring it close to the reccomended 85% of vehicle weight.Saying this,with only me using it the likelyhood of it ever being fully laden is prety remote,and I have held a full driving licence for a little more than 12 years...............cheeky. And as far as the slaves in our garage,we do supply them with fresh loin cloths every week, just to keep them happy.
wezgit daan saaf
wezgit daan saaf

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Towing Caravan with Mk1 Scamp Empty Re: Towing Caravan with Mk1 Scamp

Post  Clifford on Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:46 pm

Thanks for all this responce. My caravan has a maximum weight of only 500kg. so that puts me well within the 85% rule. The only problem is, after giving this matter quite a bit of thought, I've come to the conclusion that the 85% rule is an absolute nonsense when it comes to kit cars!

My reasoning is this - If my caravan was a bit too heavy, all I would need to do is add weight to the car and I'd be OK. Think about it. Take a basic Scamp, add a nice beefy roll bar (or two), a roof, couple of doors, perhaps a tailgate, all this could easily increase the kerb weight by 100kg or so, thus enabling you to tow an even heavier caravan and still keep within the 85% limit!

Whilst the 85% rule is only a guidline, apparently the law refers to the manufacturer's "Maximum Towing Limit" for that vehicle, which should be on the VIN plate. (I asked a VOSA guy in a yellow waistcoat who was stopping lorries) The manufacturer's figures being based largely on engine power, gear ratios and braking efficiency. Now I haven't a clue who would count as the 'manufacturer' of my Scamp, but seeing as the engine, gearbox and brakes are all standard Mini parts, surely it would be reasonable to assume that the maximum towing limit would be the same as for a standard Mini? As far as I can make out, that puts it at 8cwt. or 406 kg.

Perhaps I need to make myself a VIN plate.

Any other ideas on this would be most appreciated.
Clifford
Clifford

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Location : Maidstone, Kent
Job/hobbies : Retired Engineer - Classic Cars and Music
Registration date : 2009-04-13

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Post  SUMB on Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:40 pm

I think really it is more a case of what you feel happy with. The best thing to do is see what the trailer / caravan feels like on the back.

I'm sure I read somewhere that it was acceptable to tow 100% as long as it was fully braked.

Over the years I've towed caravans, trailers dollies and also A framed cars. Sometimes I've been happy, other times I've been crapping myself.

I used to regularly put a 4 wheel trailer behind a Skoda Felicia diesel and then load it with 1.5 tons of logs and not feel it was a problem, I just drove slower and gave myself plenty of braking distance. But I once put a mates caravan behind the same car and it really scared me, it felt as though it was going to throw me off the road every time I hit a bump in the road.

As far as knowing the kerb weight of a Scamp goes it is not something that should ever really need to be found out as it is not necessary for the MOT. All kit cars built and registered prior to the SVA coming in should have the brake test conducted on the open road using the old style machine sat in the footwell.
SUMB
SUMB

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http://www.bombercountyminis.com

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