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HELP It boils within 5 miles

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HELP It boils within 5 miles

Post  maximk1 on Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:06 pm

Mk1 Scamp 998cc (99H) 1969 engine 850 cc 1963 Rad, Scamp back on road after 30 years
Tried flushing radiator, new head gasket, new plugs and HT leads, renewed thermostat, plastic multiblade fan seems to be fitted correct way, cut air scoop into bonnet, timing checked by MOT garage, carb HS2 std GX needle, distrib Lucas 25D4 (new condenser). Unleaded fuel has lead additive and engine starts easily.
Told to get a new 2 core minispares rad as cooling on std poor but want 2B sure it is not a simple prob B4 I go there.
Anyone got any ideas of where I start. confused

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Re: HELP It boils within 5 miles

Post  Mk3rob on Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:39 pm

Thermostat ............the thinking on these is that you should drill 3.2mm (1/8" in real money) holes (6) around the seat base of the stat to improve cooling flow as the engine warms up as the wall gap between 2 & 3 pots.

Take of both hoses from the read and stick a hose pipe (unless you have a hose pipe ban Twisted Evil ) down it and see how mucky it is, or stick rad flush through the system.

You say "boils after 5 miles" but what speed are you doing?

Alledgedly 2 core are better, but after 5 miles, doubt full. Try this article

http://www.minispares.com/Articles.aspx?ty=ad&aid=90

Ok you have a scoop intake, but the heat has got to get out as well?

Correct rad cap......13psi

Best of luck, thats enough to keep you busy Smile
Rob


Last edited by Mk3rob on Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Addition)
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Re: HELP It boils within 5 miles

Post  TRR Motorsport on Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:54 pm

It might seem a daft question but does it have holes in the front grill and under the inner wing?

I've seen several Scamps without any inlet or outlet ventilation from the engine bay, no holes at all just sheet ali and then for some amazing reason the car always overheats. Odd that.
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Re: HELP It boils within 5 miles

Post  maximk1 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:01 pm

Mk3Rob Thanks for all your advice
Thermostat Will try to drill stat at present its an 82deg
System hosed and flushed with Wynns flush. Whole rad matrix is hot so suggests water flow
Max speed 45mph
Now read article v useful. Haven't tried auxiliary rad or water wetter it does have antifreeze in system.
Rad cap is GRC101 as 1963 rad with long neck so only 7psi and cannot find a 13psi long neck for early rad do you think this maybe an issue with a 1969 998cc engine.
Air scoop directs air onto upper rad, see below rad does vent into wheel arch.
TRR Motorsport
No grill is installed at present so fully open + airscoop in bonnet front. Under wheel arch rad fully visible but due to scamp mk1 design only about 50% of area. Rest is vented? out thru fins fabricated in upper wing.

Do u have any further thoughts I wondered if the forward airflow in wheel arch was stopping the air exiting the rad and perhaps I should fit a baffle? or is the problem more likely to be basic car mechanics thermostat, rad cap psi, timing, carb or leaded fuel additive or just insufficient rad capacity.

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Re: HELP It boils within 5 miles

Post  Regsmonster on Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:15 pm

maximk1 wrote:Mk1 Scamp 998cc (99H) 1969 engine 850 cc 1963 Rad, Scamp back on road after 30 years
Tried flushing radiator, new head gasket, new plugs and HT leads, renewed thermostat, plastic multiblade fan seems to be fitted correct way, cut air scoop into bonnet, timing checked by MOT garage, carb HS2 std GX needle, distrib Lucas 25D4 (new condenser). Unleaded fuel has lead additive and engine starts easily.
Told to get a new 2 core minispares rad as cooling on std poor but want 2B sure it is not a simple prob B4 I go there.
Anyone got any ideas of where I start. confused
You seem to have changed everything but the water pump....... Exclamation
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Re: HELP It boils within 5 miles

Post  OSR on Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:18 pm

Regsmonster wrote:
You seem to have changed everything but the water pump....... Exclamation

That's a good suggestion as the fins get eroded over time so you land up with just the spindle moving the water around, cavitation can also add to the problem. Having a quick look on Minispares and it seems the waterpump was changed in 1969 to a higher capacity version so it seems like your engine could have either pump fitted. Upgrading / replacing the pump would help and they're under 20.
- WATER PUMP SMALL IMPELLOR http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?ty=pb&pid=34753&title=
- WATER PUMP LARGE CAST IMPELLOR http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?ty=ai&pid=32778&sku=0&tc=1#submenu

Let us know how you get on,
Charlie
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Re: HELP It boils within 5 miles

Post  Rum Tum Tugger on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:16 pm

I wondered if the forward airflow in wheel arch was stopping the air exiting the rad
This isn't usually a problem with Mk1s.

I had an overheating problem once that hosing, back-flushing and chemical cleaning all failed to cure. So I stuck a light in the radiator bottom outlet and examined the cores below the filler cap, to see if the light was getting through. In half of them, it wasn't - i.e. cores blocked with something immoveable. New rad sorted it.

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Re: HELP It boils within 5 miles

Post  TRR Motorsport on Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:12 pm

have you ran the engine without a stat to see if it still over heats? Fit a blanking sleeve if you plan to omit the stat permernantly otherwise the water temp across the head won't be uniform.

also, with the engine running and the cap removed is there a flow of water visible in the top of the rad? This might indicate a failed water pump or blockage in the coolant system.

oh, and is the fan fitted the right way round? A daft question but i've seen it more than once.

Have you checked the timing? If it's way out it will cook up the motor as will running it too lean. but i doubt it would be either of these to overheat it within 5 miles.

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Re: HELP It boils within 5 miles

Post  maximk1 on Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:41 pm

It sounds as though the water cooling is the area I need to concentrate on drilling or removing thermostat, checking rad for total blockage, overcome 7psi cap pressure.
Sorry forgot to say I have already fitted a new GWP134 Ali waterpump as old cast iron one leaked around spindle. The fan is a plastic multiblade and looks like picture in manual plus I think it was stamped with front.
From comments it now looks like either several small things causing it or the rad or even the cylinder block / head is internally blocked by corrosion after 30 years off road even after 2 bottles of Wynns cooling flush .

Got the local garage (2 miles away) which did MOT to check timing I told them it should be 8deg BTDC @600rpm as 998cc 1969 engine 99H - if they got it very wrong would it boil ?

Piston was sticking in SU but sorted that as part of cylinder head gasket change. If anything mixture is rich as exhaust sooty but once choke pushed back seems to be fairly even running although quite fast idle 1200-1500rpm if rev counter correct.

My worry is I buy a rad and after fitting it still overheats Rolling Eyes

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Re: HELP It boils within 5 miles

Post  TRR Motorsport on Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:10 pm

So Maxi, is it fixed?
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Re: HELP It boils within 5 miles

Post  maximk1 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:03 pm

Nothing so far so will take radiator out and check if really clogged

Looks like a new rad will order next week, will it sort it??? but cant think of anything else causing it to overheat so quickly
Rolling Eyes

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Re: HELP It boils within 5 miles

Post  maximk1 on Sat May 12, 2012 8:38 pm

Very Happy
Bought new rad from Mini spares and as he said had to fettle it here and there to get it to fit then added a 15psi rad cap.
My first free day of sunshine filled rad and out I went for a 10 mile drive and believe it or not its CURED. In fact with the air scoop in bonnet it runs cool at about 75deg rather than 105 deg with boiling water squirting out.
Thanks for all the posts now I can get down to finishing the many other bits that remain
maximk1

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Re: HELP It boils within 5 miles

Post  Mk3rob on Sat May 12, 2012 9:24 pm

Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet.

Now all you have to do is De- engineer it. The thermostat opens at 88 deg C, so if your guage is reading correct (doubtful) then the stat is not opening.

Running too cool can be as bad as overheating in some cases.

If i was you i would block off some of the front grill and see what happens then. Or just sit it on your drive and let it warm up normally, this would take out the Ram air effect and your Scoop.

Best of luck
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